Q&A: Hyliion CEO Talks the ERX Hypertruck, Way forward for Pure Fuel – Gasoline Smarts

Healy: Frankly, I do not see a future on this nation the place we’re not closely utilizing pure gasoline for a few years to come back right here. From that standpoint, we ought to be utilizing it in semi-trucks as nicely. And when it comes to the political surroundings, is it being accepted or not? Simply take a look at the Inflation Discount Act. Our automobile qualifies for a similar precise sum of money as a battery-electric plug-in truck or gas cell truck.

In California, particularly, our automobile goes to qualify for 75% of a ZEV (zero emissions automobile) credit score in comparison with a plug-in truck that qualifies for 100%. They’re saying, “hey, you are not fairly pretty much as good as a plug-in, however you are shut.” We might spend hours speaking about this one, however my pet peeve is that this: we have to take a look at this from a well-to-wheel standpoint. This entire philosophy of “it is simply what comes out of the tailpipe that issues” is so fallacious. You understand, if you are going to use a coal fired energy plant, or a petroleum-based energy plant, cost an EV, you are not doing something constructive for the surroundings.

HDT: Hyliion makes a giant deal about operating on renewable pure gasoline. RNG can have a considerably decrease international warming potential, but it surely nonetheless produces some quantity of particulate matter and NOx. The place does renewable pure gasoline match into this image?

Healy: Renewable pure gasoline is mainly a manner of utilizing a pollutant as a gas. RNG is mainly captured methane that comes off landfills, wastewater remedy crops, and dairy farms. Producers seize that methane, clear it up and pump it into the pipelines to make use of as a gas. As an alternative of that methane rising into the ambiance as a dangerous chemical, we’re utilizing it to run a truck. And what comes out of the tailpipe is quite a bit cleaner. That is what’s giving us this means to be web carbon destructive. If it had simply gone off into the ambiance, that may have been worse for the surroundings than what’s popping out of the tailpipe. So, should you’re under zero from an emissions standpoint, I do not know that you could actually beat that one. In case you take a look at the grid proper now, solely about 20% of that vitality is coming from renewable sources equivalent to wind, photo voltaic and hydro. So, we predict RNG makes an incredible quantity of sense.

HDT: Let’s speak about emissions credit. The place will the credit go along with a truck just like the ERX? Is it your credit score, or is it the OEM credit score? Do fleets get any credit for purchasing a truck like that?

Healy: The credit we have been specializing in are associated to the 2 CARB mandates which are popping out. There’s the Superior Clear Truck (ACT), which is the mandate being placed on the OEM, after which there’s the Superior Clear Fleet (ACF), which is the mandate being placed on the trucking fleets. So for Superior Clear Truck, each qualify for ZEV credit, so our aim is these credit are going to the OEM or the fleet, to not Hyliion. The ERX truck qualifies for 75% of 1 ZEV credit score — just a bit bit lower than a plug-in automobile or gas cell truck. However for the fleet mandate one (ACF), we’re really going to qualify for 100% of a ZEV credit score primarily based on the way it’s written at present. For fleets, there is not any higher profit in going to a plug-in truck over our truck.

HDT: I wish to ask you concerning the value of those zero-emissions vehicles. Whereas we have been out within the truck, you talked about that fleets is likely to be immune to adopting gas cell vehicles, particularly, till prices come down and infrastructure will get constructed out. What are you listening to relating to pricing for these vehicles and the way does that evaluate together with your ERX?

Healy: Simply as a excessive stage, the tough numbers, inclusive of the IRA credit which are popping out, counsel a gas cell truck will come to market at between $500,000 and $600,000. BEV plug-in vehicles are going to come back to market within the mid-$400,000 vary. Our truck goes to come back out to be within the excessive $300,000s. And while you evaluate it towards a diesel, all of us are costlier.

What you want to take a look at is the price of operation. For the gas cell truck, hydrogen prices are round $10 a kilogram or $10 a gallon ballpark. Proper now, plugging into the grid and recharging will likely be round $4 a gallon [equivalent] whereas renewable pure gasoline will likely be within the dollar-a-gallon vary. We’re not solely going to be considerably lower than the opposite various fuels, we’re additionally considerably lower than diesel from a gas value standpoint. So, should you simply run the mathematics of sort of upfront automobile prices, and you then extrapolate the gas value over time, you will see an ROI of about three years with our resolution in comparison with a diesel.

HDT: One of many touted advantages of a full BEVs is decrease upkeep prices as a result of there are fewer shifting elements. You’ve got obtained numerous these shifting elements, so how do your long-term upkeep prices evaluate with a diesel? Since you’re solely operating the engine some share of the time and never operating it as onerous, do you count on the upkeep value to be decrease than what you’d see with a full-time pure gasoline engine?

Healy: What I am going to say is: Time will inform. It’s nonetheless too early on to actually know what the upkeep prices are going to be. However should you take a look at this conceptually — what ought to occur — we’re not going to be as low upkeep as a BEV plug-in truck as a result of, as you talked about, we nonetheless have an engine and a generator underneath the hood. With that being stated, we’re working the engine in a extra environment friendly zone, proper, and we attempt to hold the engine in its candy spot, versus going via massive RPM oscillation. There will likely be much less put on and tear on that engine, so that ought to assist lengthen engine life. By how a lot? We do not know but. That is among the issues we’re going via in testing proper now.

HDT: You’ve talked about migrating to hydrogen someday sooner or later. First, with an inside combustion hydrogen engine of some type, and ultimately a gas cell. How far out is that?

Healy: We have laid out a three-stage roadmap. The primary is a pure gasoline inside combustion engine — that’s the ability plant we now have onboard. Step No. 2 is the Karno generator, which is a brand new gas agnostic generator we simply acquired from GE.

I am going to begin with the ICE. That is going begin a manufacturing late 2023. We count on to launch the Karon resolution just a few years after that. We haven’t put a timetable to the gas cell but, however our aim is by the point that infrastructure is constructed out, by the point fleets are actually shifting over to hydrogen and actually need a hydrogen resolution, we’ll have a gas cell resolution prepared by then. All that being stated although, we really see the Karno generator as being one of many greatest differentiators for us. Not solely can it function on about 20 completely different fuels it might additionally function at a a lot greater effectivity than an ICE or perhaps a gas cell can function. From that standpoint, we can have a hydrogen resolution with the Karno generator as nicely.

HDT: What’s a Karno generator? It appears like 100-mile-per-gallon carburetor to me.

Healy: A flux capacitor… [laughs] Typically it seems like that when the engineers are explaining it to me. Truly, it’s actually neat. It is a linear warmth generator. It will possibly run on a wide range of completely different fuels, together with pure gasoline, hydrogen, diesel, and others, to supply warmth. And that warmth drives a linear generator which has an electrical motor in it to supply electrical energy. And that is the genset.

Linear mills aren’t new. They have been round for many years. We acquired the expertise from GE, who made a few massive advances with it. First, we use the identical gas injection expertise used within the GE jet aviation engines, so effectivity smart, it is implausible. The second profit is it additionally has parts which are made via 3D additive manufacturing — 3D printing. From an effectivity standpoint, we will rethink the best way these parts are designed and get a lot better efficiency out of them in comparison with standard manufacturing. Whenever you couple these two issues collectively, you’ve an answer that’s gas agnostic, and has a really excessive effectivity.

HDT: If I wished to purchase an ERX at present, who would I speak to, Peterbilt otherwise you?

Healy: At launch, Hyliion would be the one promoting the entire asset. Initially, vehicles will likely be offered via us after which ultimately we’ll work to truly shifting the mannequin to the place we’ll promote the powertrain to the OEM and the OEM can have us as a data-book possibility.

HDT: Hyliion began life making electrical pusher axles for trailers for a bit of additional propulsion or gas financial savings. The makers of transport refrigeration tools inform me someway procuring sufficient vitality to maintain a reefer unit operating for quite a lot of hours is an actual problem. Is Hyliion taking a look at dusting off the electrical trailer axle anytime quickly to assist the reefer folks out?

Healy: [Laughs] We have not put it again on our product roadmap, formally, however we do personal many patents in that space. Powering reefers, I believe, is one thing we wish to take part in long-term. There is no purpose why we won’t provide electrical energy from our pure gasoline generator to energy a reefer. Or perhaps down the highway we escape one of many trailer axles from some time again. Now we have considered one of them out within the store. We nonetheless see some worth there, and we really feel like we’ve obtained fairly good protection on the IP aspect.